Comments on: A Tale of Two Teams http://blog.james-carr.org/2007/05/23/a-tale-of-two-teams/ Rants and Musings of an Agile Developer Sat, 22 Nov 2008 08:18:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: CreditGuide http://blog.james-carr.org/2007/05/23/a-tale-of-two-teams/#comment-27084 CreditGuide Tue, 24 Jul 2007 07:49:45 +0000 http://blog.james-carr.org/?p=78#comment-27084 Extreme enthusiasts are always successful. Good team is also of great importance. Keep up working. Good luck! Extreme enthusiasts are always successful. Good team is also of great importance. Keep up working. Good luck!

]]> By: Chua Wen Ching http://blog.james-carr.org/2007/05/23/a-tale-of-two-teams/#comment-16160 Chua Wen Ching Fri, 25 May 2007 02:26:27 +0000 http://blog.james-carr.org/?p=78#comment-16160 Hi there, great stuff to read. Just like to know what you think of this? 1) and the constant communication with customers --> Can you elaborate further on the constant communication? AFAIK, my Software Analysts or Project Leads at my company meet customer on requirements not developers. We only have UAT, training and production to get the users to hands on the system for each phase. --> You mention you get customers to see the acceptance test, do you do it very frequent? Or only those special days like UAT, training and production? And do the developers present to customers? 2) Certain projects I work on are very short in time. Even it is a multi million project. But each tasks are given in 1 or 2 days of time. How are you able to practice all this in a such a short time frame? Furthermore the management doesn't care what do you in your code, the amount of code plumbing you have. So to management having these practices or not, isn't important. As long you delivered which matters the most. By the way, I am a motivator to my current team I am working in. But I am researching further on convincing the people here. Like to hear from you. :) Thanks again yeah. Hi there, great stuff to read. Just like to know what you think of this?

1) and the constant communication with customers

–> Can you elaborate further on the constant communication? AFAIK, my Software Analysts or Project Leads at my company meet customer on requirements not developers. We only have UAT, training and production to get the users to hands on the system for each phase.
–> You mention you get customers to see the acceptance test, do you do it very frequent? Or only those special days like UAT, training and production? And do the developers present to customers?

2) Certain projects I work on are very short in time. Even it is a multi million project. But each tasks are given in 1 or 2 days of time. How are you able to practice all this in a such a short time frame? Furthermore the management doesn’t care what do you in your code, the amount of code plumbing you have. So to management having these practices or not, isn’t important.

As long you delivered which matters the most.

By the way, I am a motivator to my current team I am working in. But I am researching further on convincing the people here. Like to hear from you. :)

Thanks again yeah.

]]> By: Ben Scheirman http://blog.james-carr.org/2007/05/23/a-tale-of-two-teams/#comment-16115 Ben Scheirman Thu, 24 May 2007 14:54:38 +0000 http://blog.james-carr.org/?p=78#comment-16115 I love to hear success stories like these. One of my most favorite articles on the internet is the series that James Shore put together in his Change Diary. Although it wasn't a 100% success story, it was definitely an insightful piece. If you haven't read that, I highly recommend it. http://www.jamesshore.com I love to hear success stories like these.

One of my most favorite articles on the internet is the series that James Shore put together in his Change Diary. Although it wasn’t a 100% success story, it was definitely an insightful piece.

If you haven’t read that, I highly recommend it. http://www.jamesshore.com

]]> By: James Carr http://blog.james-carr.org/2007/05/23/a-tale-of-two-teams/#comment-16059 James Carr Wed, 23 May 2007 21:52:01 +0000 http://blog.james-carr.org/?p=78#comment-16059 Well, I think having buy in on your team is a major effect.. but you have to look at the motivators for buy-in. If you just tell someone they should do XP and it's good, they may not be very convinced at all at tell you to hush up. ;) I think it's a matter of influence, how well you can prove your case, etc. Maybe show a few success stories... perhaps start small by doing some of the "best practices" and leaving them impressed. Perhaps a good example of doing something like this was in my department in regards to FIT tests. Developers were writing FIT tests, but not with the customers. And although they did prove code worked, they did so poorly. I went crazy and worked at improving readability by experimenting with different ways of approaching our tests, and trying to get collaboration with our customers. At first it felt like everyone was against me because people don't like change. But luckily, improvements were made and I even went on to influence others to improve our acceptance testing framework. Imagine my suprise when I got a lot of recognition for my efforts at work recently. ;) Well, I think having buy in on your team is a major effect.. but you have to look at the motivators for buy-in. If you just tell someone they should do XP and it’s good, they may not be very convinced at all at tell you to hush up. ;)

I think it’s a matter of influence, how well you can prove your case, etc. Maybe show a few success stories… perhaps start small by doing some of the “best practices” and leaving them impressed.

Perhaps a good example of doing something like this was in my department in regards to FIT tests. Developers were writing FIT tests, but not with the customers. And although they did prove code worked, they did so poorly. I went crazy and worked at improving readability by experimenting with different ways of approaching our tests, and trying to get collaboration with our customers.

At first it felt like everyone was against me because people don’t like change. But luckily, improvements were made and I even went on to influence others to improve our acceptance testing framework.

Imagine my suprise when I got a lot of recognition for my efforts at work recently. ;)

]]> By: Ben Scheirman http://blog.james-carr.org/2007/05/23/a-tale-of-two-teams/#comment-16049 Ben Scheirman Wed, 23 May 2007 20:08:59 +0000 http://blog.james-carr.org/?p=78#comment-16049 I'm struggling in this arena, almost exactly as you describe. When I first got into XP, I tried to preach about it to my team and we actually ended up trying it out. The problem, however, was that I didn't get buy in. I figured they'd use it and love it like I did. I was wrong. I shouldn't be telling my team exactly what to do. In my current situation I find myself trying to lead by example. I don't want to nag at people and preach about things and get into endless debates. I want to show people how these things can be successful. The problem is I haven't found that good middle ground where I can spread the word, but not be annoying. I want people to ask me to show them. Hopefully the things that I am passionate about will start to be noticed among my various teammates and that it will be easier to suggest these things. Until then I think I can just declare my belief and interest in the subject and hope that people take notice. Thoughts? I’m struggling in this arena, almost exactly as you describe. When I first got into XP, I tried to preach about it to my team and we actually ended up trying it out. The problem, however, was that I didn’t get buy in. I figured they’d use it and love it like I did. I was wrong. I shouldn’t be telling my team exactly what to do.

In my current situation I find myself trying to lead by example. I don’t want to nag at people and preach about things and get into endless debates. I want to show people how these things can be successful. The problem is I haven’t found that good middle ground where I can spread the word, but not be annoying. I want people to ask me to show them.

Hopefully the things that I am passionate about will start to be noticed among my various teammates and that it will be easier to suggest these things. Until then I think I can just declare my belief and interest in the subject and hope that people take notice.

Thoughts?

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